Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  84

  6 Years on JWD today

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have i stayed too long at the fair.

  there are many names and faces that i don't see much any more.

  my own style of posting has changed due to my limitations.. welcome to the new ones and stop by some of you we are missing if you can.. blondie.

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  Doubting Bro

  Blondie,

  I also wanted to add my appreciation for all your efforts. Your WT reviews really helped me be able to lift the blinders.

  Best wishes on a speedy recovery!
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  24

  ATTENTION BETHEL MONITORS - This is your chance!

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to the monitor(s) that bethel assigns to watch websites such as this one:.

  we all know that bethel is especially going to be monitoring "apostate" websites, such as this one, in the light of their apparently massive settlements to ensure that their gag orders for the lawsuits are kept (if someone was going to break it, this is likely the first place they'd turn!).

  later on today there will be press conferences disclosing that "some" settlements have been reached, for "some" amount of money.

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  Doubting Bro

  Please guys. If you've been assigned to monitor this site, you likely have served time on the Service Desk. You know the issues that congregations are facing on a local level. Sir's request has nothing to do with theology, simply trying to find a way to protect the kids in the congregation. I'm sure the legal department has been pushing for further reform and you probably know the whole story as to why it hasn't happened yet. Reform on this issue can take place, but someone has to stand up for it. And we all know that someone in the field won't be able to have the weight to make this happen.

  I don't believe for a second that you or anyone else thinks child molestation is ok. How can any sane person think so? This issue has plauged not only JWs but many other religious organizations as well. Its high time ALL religious organizations crack down harshly on such people. You have the opportunity to make JWs a model program.

  You know leaking this to the media will give enough pressure to add to the legal department's arguements. But, the staff attorney's would likely get disbarred if they were to leak the information. But, a carelessly placed file and a willing leaker is all that it takes. Every day that goes by is another day that some pedophile hurts an innocent child. Remember, "to whom much is given, much is expected".

  Imagine the effect that will have on WT policies! We can finally get some real, common-sense solutions to the grave problems still plaguing the organization.

  Including:

  1) Automatically reporting any allegation to the police. Mandatory reporting and not just telling the perp to turn himself in.

  2) NEVER allow a person even accused of child molestation to serve as an elder, ms or any other responsible position. If the allegations were made in the past, DELETE them now.

  3) Don't allow child molestators to go out in field service.

  4) Drop the 2 witness rule or at least allow the courts to serve as a witness if the perp is convicted.

  Please, for the sake of the kids.
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  229

  ALERT: All Child Abuse Lawsuits have been settled. Millions cashed out???

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  re: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/116108/1.ashx.

  a bethel insider in the know told me that all of the child abuse lawsuits where the watchtower bible and tract society was one of the defendants were settled back in the beginning of this year.

  i questioned it and called napa myself and they were absolutely settled back then.

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  Doubting Bro

  Knowing there aversion to parting with money, if they thought any could have been won, they would have pursued them, so settling in the way they have looks pretty much like an admission of guilt, or the nearest thing to one that we'll ever get from the watchtower, to me

  This is an important point to keep in mind. Just look at the Vicki Boer case in Canada and the Berry case in NH. The WTS fought with every ounce of its energy to pursue these cases and in the Boer case, countersued to recoop some of their legal expenses. Say what you will, they like to fight and usually don't back down. For the WTS to settle this many cases at once, there is definately something they don't want coming out. Reasonable companies settle cases all the time, but not ones without merit. And since when has the WTS been called reasonable?? They have good lawyers, but many of them are also "captives of a concept" and I have to believe they would be more inclined to fight than the average corporate attorney. I wonder what sort of effect this stuff has on them personally? Wouldn't it be something to see a couple of them turn on the WTS?

  I'd really love to see the media pick this up because while I agree few care about JWs, the pedofile "preacher" story is one that is always of interest.
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  229

  ALERT: All Child Abuse Lawsuits have been settled. Millions cashed out???

  by What-A-Coincidence in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  re: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/116108/1.ashx.

  a bethel insider in the know told me that all of the child abuse lawsuits where the watchtower bible and tract society was one of the defendants were settled back in the beginning of this year.

  i questioned it and called napa myself and they were absolutely settled back then.

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  Doubting Bro

  Seems like this hasn't made the media yet. I agree on spreading the word, but I personally need to see it in a major media outlet before I go talking about it. I always mention JW news to my wife (like the recent putting on the market of some of the Brooklyn Bethel properties). I'll be on the lookout for this and post a link if someone doesn't beat me to it.

  Thanks WAC & Barb! Good work.
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  53

  What is driving change at WTS? What is the GB? Has it failed the flock?

  by yaddayadda in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been wondering a lot about this lately.

  what drives changes to policy and interpretations?

  what processes are in place, if any?

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  Doubting Bro

  If I were on the Board of Directors of a major corp like WT, here's what I would do:

  Start off by going around all your HQ personnel and having candid conversations with the regional sales managers (COs & DOs). Of course, the main problem is getting the candid feedback which is why companies in trouble turn to consultants. That won't work here, so you would have to be able to recruit branch overseers that are well liked and trusted. Not sure if that would be easy or not.

  Once you get a framework identifying the issues as the COs see them, I would next form focus groups comprising of reform minded elders or ex-elders (low level managers of the company). Again, the main problem would be gaining confidence that nothing said would be used against you in a JC hearing. I for one wouldn't trust a guy coming in from the branch unless I had some sort of legal agreement from them saying nothing would happen.

  Finally, after getting some meat on the issues and potential solutions, I would form the last of the focus groups that would have 1) pioneers for pioneering & service related issues, 2) parents for issues surrounding kids and 3) other rank & file publishers interested in particular issues.

  You put all the input together into a plan and present back to the BOD (or GB as the case goes).

  The problem is that while this is a business that is going through tough economic times they don't have the flexibility to implant such a grass roots plan because not only is this a top down organization, it claims that Jesus is at the very top and from a theological viewpoint, getting such imput is impossible. After all, how can you reform something that is put in place by Jesus?? The only possible solution I could see is to drop the 144k being a literal number, make all JWs part of the annointed (and thus part of the "slave" class) which would then allow folks the opportunity to have input. However, the downside to that plan is you lose control. I don't think the GB would ever give up the control they have, even if it meant their own survival.
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  17

  Mormon program on PBS

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i watched this program...it was amazing.

  you will be astounded how similar this organization is to the jws if you have not already come to that conclusion.

  you can watch the whole program online.

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  Doubting Bro

  I watched it last night with my wife. I knew a little about their teaching and that they are similar in structure to JWs but I didn't realize how far the similarities go. As we watched, my wife said "they sound a lot like JWs". I agreed and then made some subtle comments along the way. It was funny the way she got upset a little at the dissenters. Especially the lady who wrote a book about how women should be allowed into positions of authority and how she was excommunicated for apostacy. Yet, it was obvious this lady still believed. My wife made the point that the author knew what would happen yet wrote the book anyway. I explained that high control groups like the Mormons don't want to hear any feedback on any doctrine and while this lady still believed, she probably felt she was being used by God to bring some reformation.

  I also said that apostacy is obviously the biggest sin a Mormon could commit and that it seemed like if you disagreed with even one doctrine, you were an apostate. Even if you still believed many of the other things. She didn't think that was very fair.

  I probably should have made more comments but I thought it was better that the program do the commenting. I did say that I thought it was strange the program didn't mention how many people consider them a cult because of their high control and lack of discussion on doctrinal and other church issues. She agreed?? How can you think Mormons are a cult and not think JWs are?

  Anyway, I also thought the program was pretty balanced. At first, I thought it was a pro-Mormon puff piece but later they brought up enough information from the other side to present what I thought was an even look. Mormons probably weren't happy and ex-Mormons probably weren't happy, so I guess that means the producer did a good job.
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  18

  Disfellowshipping question

  by emilyblue in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my ex-boyfriend who i am trying not to see anymore was disfellowshipped last monday, but he sent in a letter of appeal because he felt two the the three elders who made the decision were biased against him because they knew his ex-wife and were automatically sympathetic to the woman's side.

  he's disfellowshipped for having relations with me, even after he was divorced (before that, his divorce was unscriptural.

  ) how soon does the appeal take place?

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  Doubting Bro

  Emily,

  I can try to answer your questions for you. Just understand that its a messed up process but I understand how it works.

  but he sent in a letter of appeal because he felt two the the three elders who made the decision were biased against him because they knew his ex-wife and were automatically sympathetic to the woman's side. He's disfellowshipped for having relations with me, even after he was divorced (before that, his divorce was unscriptural.) How soon does the appeal take place?

  If he's in the same congregation that his ex-wife was, there is no way any of the elders didn't know what went on. Also, unless they were relatives of the ex-wife, the WTS rules wouldn't stop them from being on the judicial committee. He had a week to send in a formal appeal and the appeal committee usually meets pretty quicky once formed. I would anticipate a week or so, depending on people's schedules.

  Also, is an appeal for a matter like this usually successful? He was reproved for a similar situation after his first divorce also. Do they keep a record of that type of thing?

  Sorry, but an appeal for a matter like this with the information you gave will probably not be sucessful. Especially in light of his previous reproof. If you get reproved for some "sin" and then repeat it, the elders will view that as not being repentant and will likely disfellowship. Not saying its right, just telling you how they're instructed to think. And yes, they keep a record of that sort of thing.

  I don't know why I'm so worried about this, as I'm trying to break the ties with him anyway. I guess I just feel guilty because I'm the one who confessed our "sin" to my bible study teacher before I understood that she was going to have to report him for what I told her.

  I'm really sorry to hear about your guilt but remember that the whole kangaroo court system is one that you have no control over and JW teacher's NEVER disclose this procedure to a potential convert. At least, not in detail if they do.l

  If he is still disfellowshipped after his appeal, is it true that his fellow Witnesses aren't supposed to talk to him AT ALL or just on spiritual matter?

  Yes. The only contact he can have with JWs is limited to "family business" and perhaps secular business. If he's working for a JW, it will be a very uncomfortable situation.

  Probably not what you wanted to hear, but its a pretty cruel process.
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  17

  Inside, she knows what my fade involves

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while my wife acts "normal" in daily conversation, she avoids questioning me .

  about what i view on the internet.

  she occasionally asks what i am up to, and .

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  Doubting Bro

  OTWO,

  She just wants to have her husband
  and her false hopes.

  You are dead on and I'm assuming this news must thrill you. She has chosen you over the organization! You know I've been following your story very closely and find it very encouraging that you can fade without losing your wife. That gives me hope that it can happen for me as well.

  There is no other explaination to going from a gung-ho elder to inactive and not going to meetings in what, less than a year? I recently had a conversation with my father (a JW elder) about why I stepped down. Its been a few months but I haven't mentioned it to anyone in my family because I really don't consider it a big deal. I told him that it was too much and he agreed that its almost impossible to maintain the schedule that is expected of elders. Apparently, there is a person in his congregation who was a long time elder and when he stepped down, he took the same road as you did. Never comes to the meetings anymore and when questioned, says he was burnt-out. Somehow, my father buys that (on the surface), but deep down, he must know that this brother no longer believes. I'm convienced this is the case and often wonder if he's a poster or lurker here. And, I think deep down, my dad realizes that I don't believe either.

  But, because no one wants anything to change, we all ignore the elephant sitting in the room. Eventually, it must be dealt with but I think your plan of not pushing too hard is the smartest one to follow. Good luck!!
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  10

  Strange announcement about "donations" at the S.A.D.

  by Doubting Bro in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at a recent s.a.d.

  i attended, something caught my attention during the accounts report about how to make donations by check.

  in the past, they have always instructed persons who want to donate by check to make that check payable to watchtower (if i recall, they even told you to capitalize the t).

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  Doubting Bro

  At a recent S.A.D. I attended, something caught my attention during the accounts report about how to make donations by check. In the past, they have always instructed persons who want to donate by check to make that check payable to WatchTower (if I recall, they even told you to capitalize the T). However, this time, the instruction was to make the check payable to Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe, I'm just imagining things, but this seems like a change to me. Of course, any and all changes with the WTS are motivated by money.

  So, here's my theory. I think there will be a change, maybe next year or no later than 2009, to the way literature is obtained and distributed. I think that the WBTS will be reorganized into a for-profit entity and all literature will be charged for and the local congregations will be responsible to paying any sales taxes and filling out the proper forms. The presses will be moved from upstate NY to Mexico for North America and maybe Africa for Europe. The CCJW will be responsible for the content of the material while the WBTS will be responsible for the printing and sale of the material. Because the for-profit and non-religious nature of the WBTS will open up liability, the only materials distributed door to door (as agents of the WBTS) will be tracts that are distributed without charge and in the name of the CCJW.

  I know none of these are new ideas, but I think we're begining to see the plan put into action. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into a simple plea for cash!
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  42

  Aus Bethel 06 Annual Report - INCREDIBLE 50% DECREASE in donations

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just purchased the 2006 annual report for the australian watchtower bible and tract society.

  below are the highlights.

  most incredible is that donations dropped by almost 50%, from 15 million dollars to only 10 million dollars.

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  Doubting Bro

  True, it could be a timing issue. I did notice that the difference between contributions and total income for 04 & 05 was around 1m each year but then nose-dived to 300k this year. I wonder what happened?